Uspace Bugs version 11.1 (obsolete)

In EoC, lateral thrusters were strong enough to evade incoming ordnance in a combat situation. How does removing this option (by weakening lateral thrusters), "rebalance" combat?

If anything, lateral thrusters should be half of aft (main) thrusters. Fore, port and starboard thrusters should be the same.

Ever play Frontier, or FFE (Frontier: First Encounters)? Pretty much the first PC game to use newtonian flight.

In newtonian flight ( where you are dealing with AUs of distance between stars and planets, and anything in motion, stays in motion until acted upon by something else), lateral thrusters should be strong enough to alter your trajectory at ballistic velocities, in a combat situation, when ordnance is inbound. Otherwise, you are floating debris in a vacuum.

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Actually, as far as a newtonian flight model, Terminus would be a better benchmark, as it has the best "true" newtonian flight model for combat.

Main thrusters in FFE were rated (in fighters) at around 21 G of acceleration. Reverse thrusters were rated around 7 G. Lateral thrusters were proportional to the reverse thruster. Thus, I would say the ratio would be 1/3 at most. I figure a ratio of 1/5 would be perfect, but I do think 1/10 is a bit weak.

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It's been awhile, but I think the Asp had like 27g forward, and 13g reverse. The CobraMkII was about the same...as was the ViperMkII. Lateral were about 1/3 main thrusters. Still, they were strong enough to change trajectory at 12000 kps, relative to the current incoming hostile.

But I remember there was alot of tweaking within the alt-fan-elite community to get the values correct..but that was ages ago, in a time, far far away...

Your doing a fantastic job finding the bugs! Thanks! My only wish is as you find a new one, you make good notes on how to get it to happen again. As nice as it is to know the bug is there, it is so much better when I can follow your steps, see it on my machine, and fix it.

Shingen:

I thought it might be a bad savegame, so I started again. Normal setup - New game.

Twice I started with 0 cash and 0 fuel.

Are you quitting to desktop between tries? Is quitting to desktop how you finally managed to get cash and fuel? I thought I had this issue fixed.

Shingen:

Twice the ship kept flying into the station (passed the mesh), backing up, flying into the station (into the mesh), backing up, flying into the station, ect. Once, it flew all the way through the station, turned around and docked. I was able to sell at that point. Couple of times it would't dock at all, just kept formating on me.

Ok, we will need to check out the station models and that SNRV model. I know some of the station models were messed up (because in EoC they would have pod appear in thin air, etc). Because debug mode is on, you can press
POG SDK

CTRL-ALT-B Toggle Object Bounds - useful for viewing ship collision hulls and avoidance radiuses. Also shows location and orientation of ship's weapons and systems.

You can see the rest of the commands (many very useful) in Pog SDK->developing scripts->debugging pog scripts

After waiting 10 mins for ships to clear, my wingman docked to station.

Looks like I need a bit of a delay before the NPC ships attempt to dock. They move in just a touch faster than I do as well and always get the spewer first. Once or twice would be ok, but always being last gets annoying.

I will open a second thread for discussing rebalance issues, as this thread should be for bugs only. Just for clarity, lateral thrusters are weaker on purpose.

Are you quitting to desktop between tries? Is quitting to desktop how you finally managed to get cash and fuel? I thought I had this issue fixed.

hmm.. I think (if I remember now) I was just using the first option in the New Game menu (Normal Setup) and clicking Start.

The first time I started with 0 cash and 0 fuel, I think I could still fly around, I just couldn't buy anything or jump out of system. I quit using the "quit game" command, went back to EoC main menu and started a new game there. Rinse and repeat, as it happened twice in a row. I think I did have to drop out to desktop to get the thing to start right.

Since starting this game, I haven't seen anything weird yet, so it might be that the save I kept reloading was bad and was fubaring the game engine somehow.