Spies and Cargo

While I do agree with the idea that a freighter would be the least conspicuous cargo runner who also runs spying on the side, there are of course many small craft that travel throughout the stars (at least as far as I figure). Passengers and computer data don't require great big freighters and I'm sure many stations receive their fair share of each.

I'm trying to figure out why we need a physical object to represent a data scan when we could just have X slots in the computer's memory banks (possibly even expandable with memory upgrades) and acquire/sell data that way. You couldn't just swipe a pile of data from a target ship by blowing it up, in that case. You'd have to get aboard and establish a link, or somehow establish a hotlink through a security vulnerability in an open comm channel (i.e., the target ship would have to communicate with you for you to be able to hack its computers).

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It's my belief that these sheep are laborin' under the misapprehension that they're birds. Observe their behavior. Take for a start the sheeps' tendency to 'op about the field on their back legs. (off-screen baa-ing) Now witness their attempts to fly from tree to tree. Notice that they do not so much fly as...plummet.

I have always felt freighters would make great spies. As long as they don't get caught. It would be fun to have the player pressed into service by his factions spy agency. I need to think that over....

We don't *need* a physical object to represent a mass of data. (And I fully expected this position to be debated). We are open to alternate views, so feel free to post your ideas. It went well in the wingman control thread.

I find games are more fun when items important to gameplay have a physical presence in the game. The cargo pods themselves are a perfect example. Most games don't have them. I like to see the cargo a ship is hauling. I think it adds to the game.

The nice thing about using cargo pods is that so much work has already been done. The player can see them from a distance. Once they move close they can scan them and learn what they are. The player can then choose if they want to steal them. This is not totally "realistic" but are very nice features from a player perspective.

Here are a few more ideas:

We could give the information pods a new "glowing" avatar. Something translucent. Assume they are HUD created representations. And we could create new docking ports on ships to represent "info slots". If a ship has these glows attached, then you know it is carrying data. We could make the pods immune to normal damage, but be destroyed with the ship. Would this feel more "realistic"? Yet keep the good gameplay aspects?

There is another advantage to this second dockport idea. Some currently irrelevant ships could be given large numbers of this "data slots". Ships like the corporate yacht. And thus they would have a reason to exist in the game. They are "information freighters".

I kind of agree with JT in that I wonder whether we really need a physical object to represent data. However, I know that it boils down to a gameplay matter. How do we impliment 'data' in the game? If it is not a pod or physical object of some sort, how do we interact with it? Would we need to make a whole new system/interface to deal with data? Or to allow players to interact with it more?

I am kindof leaning away from the idea of making data physical merely as a gameplay solution. Mainly because it strays from our 'simulation' theme. Moveable cargo is not a good comparison because cargo actually being moved around as real pods is naturally realistic in a simulation, whereas physical data pods is a contrivance. Being data, there is absolutely no need for it to have any physical form whatsoever.

Maybe away to get around all this is to make the methods by which data is collected and transmitted the primary means of dealing and 'playing' with it. Build the gameplay around the actual devices that facilitate this. So for example, we could use drones of some kind to collect data. They actually have to be remote piloted out to some kind of proximity with a scan target. Perhaps FTL stations could be brought in somehow, as a means to transmit data discretely. Use the drone once again as a tool for hacking into other ships and station to steal/collect data. Grandpatrout, I think we once brainstormed on something along these lines. As mdvalley suggested, use specialised pods to represent covert, ultra sensitive data collection devices.

However, I still wonder whether it wouldn't be more realistic to assume that any ship with standard sensors wouldn't be capable of collecting the kind of data we are talking about. Lpoint locations, fleet and station locations, etc. How much data is really involved? And isn't it enough that the player simply knows about the location/data in some situations?

Hmmm. I think we should split the issue into two natural parts.

One part is "how is the data collected". I think that depends on the data itself. Some is stolen by hacking. Some is given to the player. Some is just simple sensor scans. I think we should discuss these ideas, as some fun gameplay can come out of it.

The second part is "how is the data transported", which is where I was focusing with this cargo discussion.

I have an assumption that I am working under, and I will state it to be clear: The challenges in Torn Stars are not mission based. If your ship is going to be stopped, it is because you encounter a fleet operation that stops you. So data needs some representation.

A second assumption that I am working under is that we want our data carriers to be intercepted or challenged. To allow that, there must be some way to "see" they are carrying data. I realize that the idea of interception might be totally unrealistic, but there is no challenge without it.

I guess the reason for physical pods, is to allow the player to "see" the data being moved. The fleet operations have no trouble tracking virtual data.

So, any thoughts on how we can let the player see the information?

OK, how about making the goal of spy mission more into "general espionage"..? For example, you may be tasked to steal an actual prototype item in a cargo pod from some faction's factory. You could even, say, have certain rare missions worth a double-cross; if the item was a nasty weapon, maybe?

So, you'd sometimes have a cargo pod but would also sometimes have data in a memory bank... Or mayne even both! Perhaps a prototype with blueprints ^^ worth less (or worthless) if either is lost. Is it difficult to add a check on computer combat damage to see if any programs are lost??

I'm kinda wary on having a visual representation of data, but it would be pretty cool if there were mountpoints (presumably right at the bridge) where invisible "data pods" were mounted. Thus, you could subtarget an enemy ship and run through a list of data files the ship is carrying. Of course, this brings us back to the original "can't hack something with no connection" realism-versus-gameplay distinction -- it's not like a courier is going to broadcast what files he's carrying for random vessels. Maybe an in-character justification could be made for it, such as some wacky laws established hundreds of years ago as part of police efforts to manage the growing wave of man-and-fusion-ring pornography.

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It's my belief that these sheep are laborin' under the misapprehension that they're birds. Observe their behavior. Take for a start the sheeps' tendency to 'op about the field on their back legs. (off-screen baa-ing) Now witness their attempts to fly from tree to tree. Notice that they do not so much fly as...plummet.