.map file relation to EoC geography?

Sorry abour rambling on in reference to the subject of creating location scenery.

I am really interested to know why there is so much recent activity and interest on the maps subject?

Maybe there is something 'cooking'?

Have Gun, Will Travel

Sorry abour rambling on in reference to the subject of creating location scenery.

Not at all. I found it informative. I listen most attentively whenever vetran modders talk.

I really want to get about creating my own clusters, I just haven't got the time right now. Or rather, I can't make myself stop modelling and start swimming the murky seas of POG again. Now that I'm creating a high-poly version of the frigate... well, with that poly limit gone I'm a little like a kid in a candy store.

As to the cluster interest? I think we just picked up the semi-annual burst of players/modders, and GrandpaTrout's geography tools were right in the open... the brightest jewel in the crown. Surely the most difficult task most modders encounter (probably because most modders don't find themselves hip-deep in iDirector like you did with the Epic intro ).




<font size="1"><font face="Book Antiqua"><font color="black">"Never before in the history of the world had such a mass of human beings moved and suffered together. This was no disciplined march; it was a stampede-- without order and without a goal, six million people unarmed and unprovisioned, driving headlong. It was the beginning of the rout of Civilisation... of the massacre of Mankind."
--H. G. Wells The War Of The Worlds</font id="black"></font id="Book Antiqua"> </font id="size1">

Hmm, make your own cluster? Sounds challenging.
Would you make a fantasy cluster or a model of a known one? How would you go about giving your cluster a charateristic feel, a certain uniqueness that is present? (the other meaning of the word atmosphere)

The reason I'm asking:

There were recent discussions over in the ina that, on a tangent, discussed scenery around stations. The EpicOnline maps are actually nothing but a small area on a cluster map with lots of scenery around the stations there.
It isn't a problem to make a scenic area. It's just a lot of tedious work to place the objects in a realistic relationship to each other and make it look interesting when you approach it, or you're in it.

The Epic online maps have more than 100 bits and pieces of debris, asteroids and lots of other stuff like taxis and drydocked destroyers. Still, they don't induce a charateristic, unique feeling about them that identifies: "this is what I am".

For example: one of the trading maps is named "Epitah flee market" and one is named Sultans Bazaar and they have different background colors. Thats it! Neither of the maps really make you feel like "hey I'm at a bazaar" or "hmm, this must be a flee market".

I.e the maps have no charachteristic identity. Heck, I could have named one the "Savanna Farmers Market" and it wouldn't really matter.

So I guess my interest is: How can you put some charachter in a map? Regardless if it's a large cluster map or a small locational scenic map. What kind of scenery would, for example, make a pirate base <font color="green">be</font id="green"> a pirate base?




Have Gun, Will Travel

How would you go about giving your cluster a charateristic feel?

A really, really, good point. And I wish I had some answer.

The EoC cluster suffers this problem. It has lots of places that have interesting names, Refugee sites, pig farms, and summer houses, but when you get there - they don't feel different.

I wonder if it is because we (as a culture) have not yet built up the fast visual or auditory clue for "pirate base".

In one of the Firefly commentaries they talk about needing to introduce the ships mechanic to the audience in a way that screams "mechanic" - so they have her roll out from under a broken system, spattered in grease. That rolling out motion says mechanic better than a page of dialog.

And nothing says villan better than 10 bars of the Vadar theme and a black helmet. But StarWars does not give much to draw on for signalling space stations, because they land when they want to hang out in a space port bar.

So I guess this is an opportunity to invent something new! If a cluster cannot borrow a prior "shorthand" that says "market" then it could create a new one, and use it consistantly.

When I think "Industry" I hear the sounds of trains moving slow - wheels clattering. I hear the banging of large metal objects. I see the bright white arc lamps that light up chemical refineries at night. The tall clouds of white smoke.

But I like Shanes idea of a silence in space. So maybe the sound would be radio transmissions. I wonder what an airport sounds like on commercial frequencies. Or a shipping port. I bet there is a world of sound out there we don't even know about. How about military range control? I expect the military and civilian bands would have very different manners.

Just ideas to kick around.

-Gtrout

There is a necessary lack of atmosphere in space. <oooohhh... bad pun! That kind of stuff will get you thrown out of here. >

On the surface, a PC game can only affect three of the five senses; sight, sound, and (to a limited extent) feel (via forcefeedback). But through AI actions, more can be communicated. Traffic patterns (ranging from 'all alone' to 'tropical reef'), station greetings, lighting, and clutter all give information to the player.


MINING STATION:

If it's a new station, place it in the middle of a stable (no rotation or movement), thickly populated asteroid belt, and make it look shiny.

Tons of light miners and flitters. A few older model freighters. Make a small asteroid object (a pod with an asteroid avatar) and allow flitters and miners to haul them to the station. Use GT's smoke plume on the station and light everything with a harsh light. Place spotlights everywhere (like GT said, the area should be awash in sodium arc lighting).

Station control always makes you wait for a dock. They sound harried and overworked. Radio chatter is more subdued than the Lowlife stations, but only because they don't allow the hookers and firefights here. Place a rent-a-cop nearby where everyone can see him, but don't have him do anything unless someone starts shooting up the station.

Maybe only two or three neon signs; one to show where to turn in your ore for money, and two for bars. Probably with nude girls, but the signs would not say that... they'd name it something like "The Kitty Club".

If it's old, make the appearance more aged and only allow a few stable rocks nearby. Make them all small and increase the amount of kibble three-fold. Reduce everything from the new mining station by half or more.




FOR LOWLIFE UNDERWORLD STATIONS:

No military 'prettyfied' radio chatter. Have you ever used a CB radio? Used one near a truck stop? They scream insults at one another... Lot-lizards (hookers) make propositions to clients. Pass around gross jokes. It's the real-life version of the lowest, scummiest, sickest chatroom the web can offer.

Let firefights break out amoung the ships nearby. Show lawlessness. Station control must, of necessity, insult each and every ship which arrives before ignoring them completely. Rude threats shall also be issued to anyone not known to normally swim in such circles. Bright neon signs (most making use of the word 'nude') flash everywhere. Pushers use the frequencies to look for junkies. Junkies look for pushers.

The station itself should be a gangly, ugly, unbalanced place. Dirty inside and out. Downright tacky and painted in garish colors. Place garbage in a cloud around the station. Don't allow traffic patterns which place large ships nearby (and most definately not freighters). Use smaller ships(none of higher calibur than a Puffin) and pack 'em in. Most of them shouldn't fly in, dock, and then leave... they should loiter.

While the station is garishly lit in a nauseating mix of warm and cold colors, make the region fairly dark to reflect the social level. Keep the station as far from the system's star as possible.



ORGANIZED CRIME STATION

Clean, but not too clean. Station should be well kept, but of an older model. Traffic patterns may very much resemble a respectable freight depot, but too many freighters sit motionless, stuffed with cargo but not moving. Many well armed guards in decently-kept ships move about challenging anyone who enters. Radio chatter is more muted, but still not professional at all. It should sound like a the chatter of a high-stakes card game in the back room.

As the player enters the station space, three or four ships begin to shadow him where ever he goes. Station control greets the player with a guarded "Wha-daya want?"

Like the Lowlife station, keep the backgrounds dark and far from the center of the system. It should look like a dark alley. And it's lighting should be cold and clear. No haze, no fog, and no warm colors.


Just a few ideas... you get the drift.

I'd be happy to pound out some station models, convert them and place nulls on them, but don't have time to put them in-game and test them (which usually takes twice as long as the first part). I'd just be sending the avatar folder. If you're willing to do the testing, I'm game.



<font size="1"><font face="Book Antiqua"><font color="black">"Never before in the history of the world had such a mass of human beings moved and suffered together. This was no disciplined march; it was a stampede-- without order and without a goal, six million people unarmed and unprovisioned, driving headlong. It was the beginning of the rout of Civilisation... of the massacre of Mankind."
--H. G. Wells The War Of The Worlds</font id="black"></font id="Book Antiqua"> </font id="size1">

The question of how to give a region of space some "character" is a really interesting one. I've been giving it some thought, and thinking about the approaches used by other games that have, in my view, succeeded in this task as far as it is possible in a computer game environment.

Sound is one of the key ingredients, to be sure: Music, Sound effects, and chatter.

What made all the corridors and rooms of Black Mesa seem like a research facility? Lots of quintessentially egg-headed scientists walking around in lab coats saying hilarious things, canned security voice alarm warnings, the hums of machinery and beeps of computers.

What made Grand Theft Auto: Vice City seem more like a living city than a collection of roads and buildings with silent spooky automatons wandering about aimlessly? Well the radio stations sure helped keep me laughing, plus the occasional bit of conversation or passerby response you hear on the street.

Deus Ex, System Shock, AvP, Undying, WWII fps's, the list goes on and on, but the importance of good sound in creating a compelling atmosphere and tone; to add character to a place cannot be underestimated. These sounds should make the player feel like they are hearing things that make sense in that locale, but also offer nice little surprises and 'accidents' that give the appearance of randomness, but once heard, make sense in that locale.

The challenge of doing this in space is huge, as the environmental cues to build upon are so few...like the previous discussion, we almost have to create a new lexicon of stereotypes for things in the science fiction/space sim environment that tell the player this is 'X' in an instant of recognition. Sounds, especially the nice little 'accidental' sounds, are also harder in space, because unless its happening on your ship, you need to get it via a radio or some kind of communication device. Maybe tuning in to station regional radio stations would be a possibility.

Another way to provide 'character' and 'tone' in environments (again, borrowing from many games and genres) is an abundance of little scripted events. Screaming NPCs getting dragged into ventilation shafts and spat back out in bloody parts help you to feel fear of nooks and crannies and all dark places, because there be the monsters. Walking past two NPCs having an argument in the street, or seeing something happen that you, as the player, don't feel like you made happen (taking the centre-of-the-universe feel away from the player by providing the illusion that stuff happens whether you're there or not...). Doing this in space is, again, a unique challenge, cause' mostly what you see are stations, cargo pods and other ships. What kind of scripted event can you make that will help you believe this place is alive and active without you? The traffic scripts already do this admirably. But I believe they can be enhanced to be even more believable, and help to signal distinct types of locales. The SOS distress rescue events help to make you think that this is a dangerous universe, as do many other intership attacks you can witness at L-points.

I'll stop ranting, but here at least are a few simple examples of what we can consider playing with.

--
Hot4Darmat