Ideas for faction relations

I think it should be harder to be everyone's friend.

It would be nice if we pushed the player into taking sides in the conflicts that make up the cluster. Essentially, if you are allied to the cops, then the criminals are never going to trust you no matter how much cash you have.

So if the player tries to purchase a standing increase, the players current relations should factor into it. So if you are already allied to the cops, the criminals just won't let you purchase the increase.

I see it coded something like this
1. You try to purchase an upgrade.
2. The faction checks your other relations. If you are friendly with someone the faction hates, they won't deal with you.
3. If you are friendly with someone the faction dislikes, they charge you twice as much.

The player still needs a way to increase standing. So we give them a reward increase if they help out in actual combat. This has the same effect of making the player pick sides.

Players in pirate infested areas are going to have to choose carefully how they intend to survive. Do they join up with the governments, but then make the pirates angry? Or do they join up with the pirates, and make the governments angry? Or try to stay quietly neutral?

This comes closer to our idea of having the player actually become part of a faction. Once part of a faction the player would be part of the action of that faction. And wars or conflicts the faction was part of should automatically become the players as well. The path to becoming a a member of a faction would be a sliding scale. So the closer you move to one faction, the further you move from its' enemies. Makes perfect sense.

Anyways we talked, about this before and I think it is a great idea. Involves the player more in the action.
We also need to get the upgrading of faction standing attached to pog entities and/or faction Headquarters. We shouldn't let that be forgotten, as much of the setup for that exist right now (I think)

I think Freelancer handled buying reputations pretty nicely: you can buy a reputation bonus from any station you can dock to (and in more than a few cases the person selling the reputation bonus sells reputation bonuses for a different faction), but doing so also decreases your standing with the faction's enemies. For instance, if I get my IFF transponder modified to say that I'm a good friend of the pirates, the police are going to raise their eyebrows when they read it.

Freelancer's reps were way too expensive to buy, though. It was cheaper to just go out and blow a hole in something to fix your reputation.


Whatever the case, make sure the net change in any reputation transaction equals zero. That is, if you make one faction like you very much, its enemy factions should all dislike you a little bit. If you make several factions like you very much, the enemy factions are liable to be at war with you, though.

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I did like the Freelancer system. And it is true that it gives you a way of getting your reputation adjusted by direct action (ie finding someones enemies and attacking them). On the other hand it feels a little "behind the scenes" in that you as the player attack someone and hope to have the effect you intend.

This system is a little more "in your face" in how you must make planned thoughtful decisions about who will and will not be your allies. (which is made doubly important, because you cannot earn a living without better trade goods).

There are some issues to work out with the diplomat concept. It works well for governments and corporations, with clear HQ stations. Independents and criminal organizations are less certain. Pirates are really troublesome, because you need to buy a rumor to find the pirate base, but you need to have a halfway good standing to buy the rumor...

I am thinking that if we get the moving operations working, then pirates and others could have mobile diplomats. They move around as if meeting with allies and recruiting new contacts. So you could meet pirate diplomats near entertainment stations or even at police bases (bribing the local captain to leave them alone). Still no clue how we would handle the independent factions.

Privateer based faction feeling off the kill list. If you'd toasted 50 police ships but only three pirate ships, the gangsters were your friends. And vice-versa. A 'neutral zone' seemed to exist also... a point on the constantly-moving scale where the universe was neither your friend nor your enemy. But this system may be a bit simplistic for TS (anyway I don't think the score function stores kills on a faction basis).

NOTE: The following is just my personal opinion. I've typed it in three times on three separate days since the initial post, but deleted it each time. I'm only a contributor and really appreciate the access to the development forum. However, I feel the current faction/player relations are the only thing standing in the way of Torn Stars becoming the next Elite. So just my 2 cents... okay?

Originally posted by GrandpaTrout
I think it should be harder to be everyone's friend.

I actually feel it's too difficult already.

With the initial release of TS I achieved a good standing with all the non-renegade factions. Had two Venice freighters and a decently-upgraded ship. Took about 30-40 hours of real-time playing to get to that point.

I never fired a shot the entire time.

To do so would have impeded my ability to trade. The faction's memories know no limits. It's in my best interest not to engage in any type of combat.

Since the bad guys are contained in two systems (Ripon and Epitaph), I can avoid combat as long as I don't make any enemies. And I will be far more successful than I would if I were a loose cannon.

That reduces TS (the original release) to a pure trading simulation. Ship type and weapon loadout make no difference when any hostile action will have serious consequences that undermine your ability to continue. Enemies are (almost) forever here. And you might be able to defend yourself... but try defending two or three fragile freighters from multiple foes.

When faction tolerance to player aggression is so low, combat tends to get weeded out of the succesful player's game. And combat is one of the foundations this genre was built upon.

Consider: have you ever heard of a space sim where you played 30 hours but never fired a shot? What would your initial reaction be if you read, on the box, that you could play 30 hours and never have to engage in combat? That the road to success was to never fight?

It is my opinion that the factions in Torn Stars should be far more lenient. This would encourage player/AI skirmishes. And validate the need for weapons in the first place.

Additionally, padding the hit points and armor of all frighter class craft would help (I'd even go as far as tripling their hit points). That would allow the player a chance to fight off an attacker before he loses everything.

I know future features will probably modify this. But, as it stands, it really doesn't pay to act up or do anything other than trade in TS.

I have to echo Shane on this, but also bow to his insane patience. I did something similar, but with a twist that reflects my impatience a little more. I started about three or four separate times...each having gone a little further into the game to carefully (non-violently) build up some cash. After several hours of repetitive trade trips, I'd get a little impatient at someone in my way, and start shooting like a good space pirate should. From then on, I'm instantly on the s#&t-list of a faction or two, that always seems to find me at the most vulnerable time around stations...so no matter how hard I tried or reloaded the game I'd get wiped out, and restart another game. The last time I played, I had built up a big cash sum, was ready to hire a better freighter, and was trying to buy more faction favour to get a better ship and armaments, but I simply couldn't invest any more time to do it all. I don't have an hour estimate handy, but it was substantial (not 30 hours, but...lots) that last round...I never shot at anyone or anything. Not once. just kept hoping that if I got far enough along with equipment, then I could start being abit more of a bad boy, and thing would start to get more interesting.

In my view, the dissemination of information about a shot fired is too perfect. Or at least the response of faction members is too harsh at the outset. There needs to be a little wiggle room, or a three strikes policy, or something that will permit the odd shot fired without having to completely restart the game.