Missles (and rockets)

JT, in response to your comments,

I think you have the right idea concerning missiles being the 'dessert' so to speak. However, I am going to have to do some more testing. I am not sure whether the damage missiles put out can be differentiated between shields and hulls. I have no idea, but suspect it can't…

As for controlling the ramping up of the LDS...currently I am looking to increase the survivability of battles. With what I have done so far, I have begun to notice new AI behavior. Ships are able to make the decision to cut and run more often, and realistically, since they now actually have time to make such a decision. Previously it was as if this behavior was hidden because of the rapidity with which ships were blown out of the vacuum.

I would love to look it over. It would be totally great to mess around in a mod where I did not already know all the secrets! Looking forward to seeing it.

I never use those gnat or blizzard rockets in EOC. Is it possible to adapt them for locating unstable L-points or for mining?
They could make up as a kind of probe.
Maybe we could use redesigned REM-missiles to do the first jump though an unknown L-point? I guess this would be more real. Nobody wants to jump through an L-point without knowing where it leads to and what amount of damage it will probably do to your vessel.
The REM-missiles could "fade out" after a few seconds on the other side.

Edit: Another type of REM missile could be used to lure away some mines from a military debris field. The player may find some useful stuff there.

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There is no safe distance

Some of my thoughts on the role of missiles were expressed in a thread a long time ago. I forget most of it but the gist was that they should be ALOT more scary than they were in EoC, where they were a distracting annoyance, for the most part. I felt it would be better if once you get a missile lock or launch alarm on your ship, you basically have to work very hard, drop everything else, and focus on evading, spoofing, or destroying it. Missiles should serve the role of real serious long-range combat, like the opening part of the whole dance. If done right, you would think carefully before closing to beam weapons range before the missile exchanges were done.

Think back to the advanced weapons training mission in the original Independence War, where you had to try to destroy an old hulk destroyer while if continually poured seeking drone mines out at you. It was a real challenge, and you had to balance your tactics between dealing with missiles, and trying to inflict damage on the big ship. The whole time you had to really adjust the balance as you watched your own hit count rise.

I'm sure there was more, but I'm running a little dry on ideas right now. Just my 2 cents.

I have to echo Hot4's thoughts on this.

From a realistic viewpoint:
Given the measures which current day pilots must immediately take upon a missile lock/launch, I find it hard to believe these futuristic versions are so wimpy and easily dismissed.

Consider the sizes of these things:



They equal the present-day sizes of ICBMs. And our missiles today must battle gravity. Removed from this concern, the futuristic space versions would have to be quite deadly; more room for payload, tracking equipment, and fuel.

From a game-play viewpoint:
The original balance I created featured missiles of varying classes. Some were dogfighting missiles, others were capital ship missiles (again, the futuristic version of the ICBM)... some very agile but with a weak payload. Others the reverse (the torpedo classes). Missiles were a bit more rare in the AI loadouts (when compared to EoC standard), but when present they were not to be taken lightly.

My Sandbox battles were very, very fun and exciting. There's really nothing like the enemy throwing a surprise missile at you and having to break off your attack run to shake it.

Fantastic diagram. It would be fun to have images like this in the library. It really reminds a person how huge these ships are.

Missiles are always difficult. In any "real world" they would totally dominate, just as they do modern naval warefare. No ships would ever see each other. Which might be true, but is not much fun. So the real trick becomes how to disable them so you can get into some close combat and do some dogfighting. It is hard for something to be deadly, and yet harmless.

The issue is made more difficult by the wide range of ship abilities. Which is why missiles become irrelevant late in EoC. A missile that has a tiny chance of hitting a patcom will smack into a tug every time.

And another issue is numbers of ships in play. Once two or three ships are all launching missiles, life becomes very short. And yet that is the normal case. If you do manage to dodge the first wave, that just means they are turning back while you are struggling to deal with the second wave. It is pretty easy for 8-10 missiles to be in play at once.

Non-manual counter measures only complicate the situation, because the player never has to "feel" the danger and do something. So then non-manual counter measures (no matter how realistic) have exactly the same emotional effect as your opponents launching less missiles.

One solution I have considered is making the missiles visible on the HUD so the player can shoot them down. The missiles need low hit points for this to work.

Another is having missiles with less turning and lower life. Once they go whizzing past (player successfuly dodges) they are gone for good. The low turning radius also makes the missiles pretty useless at short range.

Another idea came from Nexus. Give the missiles wide area burst radii. When the first one hits, it takes out any others nearby. Almost like the way an LDSI missile clears other missiles when it strikes.

And another is allow some missiles to have fast turns, but really low armor piercing. Those missiles can hit fighters, but they only do a fraction of damage to a standard hull ship.