New New Planets!

Well no wonder it doesn't work. I wasn't making it too difficult, your using Lightwave 5.6 to work on the object. I don't have 5.6. We all know 5.6 can make objects with working surfaces. Cambrogol said he was using version seven. If he's also using 5.6 to surface and save objects, then nothing new has really been discovered.

Thanks anyway Shane.

Grrr, 5.6. !

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Grrr yourself.

We all know 5.6 can make objects with working surfaces.

If we'd known LW5 could do this we would have done it a long time ago. Don't demean his accomplishment.

Cambragol probably does not have 5.6 since he did not mention it.

Did you not create a method of surfacing objects without using LW5? I'd thought you posted a tutorial of that...

Anyway, exporting from LW 8 or 7.5 strips the surface attributes from the model and sets the diffuse to 0. If you can find a way to reapply the surfaces just place the maps in the appropriate places (spec map on specularity channel of surface... etc.) and set the diffuse to an appropriate level and you should be fine.

I'm not demeaning it, but there's no new information for me here. I already knew that all these things worked in 5.6 and below, I thought you all knew this too. That's how the buda5 models were made. That's how the game models were made. The naming conventions are mostly there to tie into animation.

But exporting from any version higher than 5.6 won't retain any texture map information other than the color map. I thought his accomplishment was finding a way to export all the other attribute map information from a version of Lightwave other than 5.6. His planets are still very nice looking.

I don't know what you mean by saying exporting to 5.6 strips all the surface attributes from a mesh and changes the diffuse level to 0. All my exported 5.6 surfaces retain every setting I originally give them, except texture map info for attributes other than color and luminosity (which doesn't work). For me, exporting to 5.6 also adds a second layer to the color image map for some reason. Although this layer is empty.

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I already knew that all these things worked in 5.6 and below, I thought you all knew this too. That's how the buda5 models were made.

You're telling me that Buda 5 was able to get nightside lights working? Or spec mapped oceans? Or any other EoC mod project? No... not unless I missed one hell of an announcement somewhere along the way.

I don't know what you mean by saying exporting to 5.6 strips all the surface attributes from a mesh and changes the diffuse level to 0. All my exported 5.6 surfaces retain every setting I originally give them, except texture map info for attributes other than color and luminosity (which doesn't work). For me, exporting to 5.6 also adds a second layer to the color image map for some reason. Although this layer is empty.

If you lack LW 5.6 then how would you know? I can export from 7.5 (or 7.0) and then open the model in 5.6 and tell you exactly what has been changed. Any assigned maps are missing and diffuse is set to zero. I've done this with every model I've ever put in the game and know the procedure well.

I'm not trying to get into it with you, but comments like "If he's also using 5.6 to surface and save objects, then nothing new has really been discovered." and "I thought his accomplishment was finding a way to export all the other attribute map information from a version of Lightwave other than 5.6. His planets are still very nice looking." sound a bit like sour grapes syndrome to me.

You show me any mod project which has created something like this... show me others who've built something like this before for EoC. In fact, show me a planet in the original unmodded game which looks like this. Then I'll listen when you say there's nothing new here.

You're making it sound like I said something bad about cambrogol's work. I don't know why. I said his work was beautiful, and thought he'd finally found a way around the limitations of non 5.6 Lightwave. I don't know why I assumed he was using higher version, but I did. Then when he said he was using ver. 7, I really thought he found what I've been searching for for so long; a way to get additional map channels from other versions of Lightwave to work in the game. But if he's doing the same thing as you, and using LIghtwave 5 to make this work, then he didn't unlock any new secrets. I don't know how you could have been making models for this game (with 5.6 even) for so long and not known these things.

Buda5 and the game both have specular and luminosity mapped ship and object models. A planet is just a round model. So they're not terribly difficult to make with 5.6. I imagine the reason buda5 didn't have planets with night-side lights is because they didn't make any planets. The game planets don't have these feature because they're dynamically textured using a built-in procedural map-mixing algorithm, not a Lightwave surface, for a large number of random combinations. Cambrogol's planets each have to be textured seperately, since they're normal models. And placing objects in the game is not hard either. And we all know the clipping distance is set in flux.ini. Cambrogol's work is awsome, and I'm sure it took lots of work. And I wouldn't take away any credit for all that work. But I think the only reason it hasn't been done before is because of the well-known shortage of modelers for EoC. And of those modelers, not every one has 5.6 (like me).

As for me looking at 5.6 models, it's easy enough to open a 5.6 model in any version of Lightwave and see what it's got. What I described are the beginning and end results of my exports. If yours are different, or if they show up differently in 5.6 itself, then ok. But I know that my models don't have a diffusion level of 0 in the game, because diffusion is one of the attributes important to the look of my ships. So I set it very carefully.

. . .and know the procedure well.

Well, you also seemed surprised that models could be assembled from multiple meshes, and thought entire models had to be under 800 polys (at least that's what you told me when developing the Terrapin). But so did we all, once.

I don't know why your getting into it with me at all. I haven't said anything demeaning to or about cambrogol's work. His planet work is beautiful. And I'm glad someone finally decided to put in all the work to accomplish it. It just turns out that he didn't solve the problem I thought he did. If I had Lightwave 5.6, all my ships would be lovely specular and luminosity mapped works of art. You yourself had that experimental sphere with all those map channels applied to it ages ago. So there is literally no new information here, just a lot work creating new things with existing information.

You seemed to take it personally, but my "Grrr, 5.6 !" comment was directed at 5.6. I hate it, because I can't get a hold of a copy and every game I want to mod seems built with it. I'm sour that my most aggrevating problem still remains, but it has nothing to do with Cambrogol or his work.

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You edit your replies over and over. Why is that?

You're making it sound like I said something bad about cambrogol's work. I don't know why.

Care to explain the edit of your post at 05 Aug 2005 : 05:20:57? Wasn't for spelling errors... was it? It was to tone it down.

...and thought he'd finally found a way around the limitations of non 5.6 Lightwave

He may have. We'll have to wait and see.

I don't know how you could have been making models for this game (with 5.6 even) for so long and not known these things.

A crafty slight. Trust me... you don't want this to degenerate into observations of character or skills.

Well, you also seemed surprised that models could be assembled from multiple meshes,

Incorrect. Learned this when I posted for advice at Buda 5. Don't know who you're thinking of, but you've obviously mistaken me for someone else. IIRC, I was mentioning to Dark Fire that the Super Danube he built would have to be split into over 30 or so sections long before you arrived at our fourm.

and thought entire models had to be under 800 polys

Which, surprisingly enough, was told to me by Logic Sequence of Buda 5. Hmmmm...

You yourself had that experimental sphere with all those map channels applied to it ages ago

Wrong again. The Testball was to work on glow channels... actually giving light off. Not luminosity maps.

In fact, when I was with Epic GrandpaTrout gave me the mission to find a way to create lights on the stations. I was unable to find a way to do this. If the Testball had given all the answers there would have been no need.

So... from your point of view, this is all just a fantasy I've somehow made up in my head? Well, you're certainly entitled to your point of view.

Here's how I see it. You were irritated that the model was not translating correctly into the game. Being irriated you made a post which used a... shall we say demeaning tone? Then you edited it either as I was making a reply or right after I made my reply. Now you wonder where I got this strange idea in my head, and continually edit your posts to support your position.

Any part of this sound familiar?

In any case... this goes nowhere. And I'm sure we both have better things to do with our time. I think maybe we should just agree to disagree. This discussion is over.