X2: The Threat

Well..I know I'm a bit new here...actually...I was a member for a long time...I just forgot the password to my older user name and well..now there is a bit of a difference in e-mail addy..
Anyway...I digress.
I've played The X series of games for a long ...umm...long long time.
As a matter of fact...from the beginning with XBTF (X-beyond the Frontier) The graphics were...a little off and the flight engine has improved greatly.
There are some problems with X²..well...perhaps not problems...more like individual issues about what it should be like.
I tend to agree that the flight engine should be a little more like neutonian physics...an object in motion tends to stay in motion in a frictionless environment. IF anyone remembers the old Babylon 5 episodes (like you don't remember) they used pretty good physics in their program...as a matter of fact...next to Space Above and Beyond...it was the only one to do that.
In either case, Egosoft uses a different flight model on purpose. This is so it won't become extreamly hard for a new player to pick up the game and start playing.
I know this as I beta test for egosoft from time to time...when they need a hand (No big deal...anyone can do it).
X²TT kind of revolves around trade...and the trade engine in X² happens to be really good...true there are a few bugs in it...but..nothing that isn't going to be worked out. Unfortunately...my NDA with egosoft prevents me from saying anything about X²TR...but...it'll be out soon enough. ( www.egosoft.com )
Every game that comes out is different from the next.
I'm sure that ONE DAY The X series might actually incorporate the neutonian physics...but for the moment...they don't.
The explanation is simple...the ships in X² have a computer that compensates for the movement of the ships keeping them from drifting making them more easy to control...it could happen.
Personally...I would like to see drift effect in X².
The very first game XBTF hd something like that...if you lost control of the ship...you really lost control of the ship...and if you were using a FF stick...you could feel it as you spun out of control. This was also used in X-tension as well...the second game in the series.
You have to keep in mind that X² was made with the trade engine in mind. You can trade and the economy shows it...it reacts to what you do. The fighting...it still leaves alot to be desired...but it is alot harder now as there are several patches and MODS to X²TT that make it a little more balanced. There is no such thing as a
hero Character" in X².
The upgrades to the game found on the egosoft download area incorporates Gunnery crew, which makes the capital ships a little better in combat...remember...this means ALL ships are improved when this update is installed...you can also choose which updates you really want as well. And there are quite a few of them.
X²TT is not Independence War II...and Vise versa. IF they were...well..I'm not sure what it would look like...might be interesting..and then again..it might not.
IWar II doesn't have a really accurate trading system...but it has a really good flight engine..so the two have really good points and equally bad points.
The Unfortunate thing is that I don't see another I-War being made...and I-War II will be the last. I really hope that I'm wrong..but..I don't think so...not at this point.
I have the Original I-War that is now almost unplayable on WinXP and with the Video card that I use. Really wish that there could be a re-master of the game wich would utilize the newer graphics cards. This would create a new influx of the game as the original I-War was really good as well. I had the oportunity to beta test I-War back in the day...and I belive it was called Drednaught or something close to that...its been a while And there was even a feature for beta testing with it that opened up ll the lagrange points by typing "laGrange" into the command line of the game...this only worked if you had the beta version of the game though.There were alotof littleperksto the game that most people didn't know about...even after they'd played the game for a while.
One thing tends to remain the same though...The I-War Series were really well done. Unfortunately...they stopped when you reached the end. The patched and updates to I-WarII made it an open ended game...but...this only goes so far..ad then it gets boring as well.
If there was a way to really interact with the universe around you like in X²TT, I think it might have been a beter game. To OWN stations and to actually trade with stations rather than having to get to a certain level in thegame to be able to obtain certain items.
As it sits, I-WarII still has a tendencey to end before you actually see all the neat technology in the game...and tey onkly work if the game has it scripted for them to really work.
This can be said about any game really...but more so with I-WarII.
Its still an excellent game as well as X²TT.
I know that this post was really long...and I probably stated a few things that someone else has stated...but I felt the need to say something. And yes...I did read every post here .

By contrast, I don't think I read every post in this thread. Did someone complain about X2 because of the lack of a newtonian flight model? That's the only part of flying in it I did like. If nothing else, it had a nice totally-fake movie style flight model.

No doubt, X2 is an amazing achievement; especially if you're "into" trading (I'm not, but that's not the point). It just has a crummy flight experience (not flight model). Which, of course, is the whole reason I play space-sims.

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The flight model and combat in X2 is utter pants, and it's got nothing to do with newtonian/non-newtonian. It's just pants, despite many patches. It took nearly a year before a FAN MADE mod made the gun turrets shoot straight for crying out loud! The incompetence of the AI frustrated me so much I gave up on the combat side of it totally, not long before I quit totally.

Another gripe, if you wanted to pick up a combat mission you had to spend up to half an hour flying from station to station at random looking for a mission to apear on the boards, complete it in five minutes and then go back to mindlessly flying in circles...waaay too much down time in X2.

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There is no enemy. Anywhere.

Originally posted by Hendar23

The flight model and combat in X2 is utter pants, and it's got nothing to do with newtonian/non-newtonian. It's just pants, despite many patches. It took nearly a year before a FAN MADE mod made the gun turrets shoot straight for crying out loud! The incompetence of the AI frustrated me so much I gave up on the combat side of it totally, not long before I quit totally.

Another gripe, if you wanted to pick up a combat mission you had to spend up to half an hour flying from station to station at random looking for a mission to apear on the boards, complete it in five minutes and then go back to mindlessly flying in circles...waaay too much down time in X2.

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There is no enemy. Anywhere.

Ok...I don't usually do this...but you have to really get your facts straight first. I'm not doing this to be a..Butt head?? But...I think you need to be informed...thats all.
First...
The flight model...
The flight model in X²TT is the way it is because egosoft had a poll on what people wanted in X²TT. One of the things was the flight model.
They have a tendency to get feed back from the forum.
IF you've ever played ANY of the previous games in the series, you'd know what I was talking about.
When you lost control playing XBTF or XT(X-tension)...you really lost control...especially if you were using a FFB stick.
Evidently, alot of people wanted to have tighter control over the flight. This was interpreted as VERY tight control...and your right...Version 1.1 that was shipped and put into stores was utter pants. This was fixed 1 week after it was released in ver1.2.
The in yet another patch that adressed some other issues in ver. 1.3 .
So...if you've never played the game from the first time it was released...you really haven't got a basis to compare. X² and I-War II are very different.
It WAS fixed...and before the fixes...the flight was really awful...people complained and Egosoft fixed it.
The flight model is the way it is due to the fact that they want people that are new to the genre to be able to play the game with very little trouble. Also, a I said before...they way that they have explained the ships...the on-board computers compensate for everything...so...you won't have the really sloppy or floaty feeling of the ships.
Personally...I would like to have the floatiness (sp) when flying...and I like the flight engine in I-War I&II.

About the turrets....
Now...as you have said...the turret shot...umm...wildly?? I guess thats the best way to describe it...but..How else should an automated turret fire? They fire at the target...I know as I've tested that myself.
You're not going to get a better sort of hit to fire ratio unles your actually IN the turret yourself. Sorry...its just how it is. Wheather you like it or not...it the ships computer AI that is firing the turret when you activate it.
Now...The "fan" or "Forum member" that wrote the gunnery script...he actually works for Egosoft LMAO ROF...so you have been really misinformed. (I could be mistaken..but I don't believe so)
The gunnery script, in case you didn't realize, makes it possible to add CREW to your ship...more to the point GUNNERS to the turrets.
Once you have gunners in the turrets, your turrets fire a little more accurately. This only effects YOUR CURRENT SHIP. Ships that you have flying round the galaxy are rated differently and it calculated like a roll of a dice..so I'm told as I really never quite understood that..but it IS explained on the egosoft site...somewhere.
Now..add the crew and the Aegis system (Which really costs an ungodly amount of credits) your turrets very rarely miss...and they fire at 3 times the rate as just having the computer firing and having the crew. It also adds to the crews ability to track and fire...and if you've ever used it...you know that I'm telling the truth.

The X series of games wasn't meant for everyone..there are people that love the game and can't get enough...and there are people that have played the game once and will never play it again...this goes for all games though.
X²TT isn't just a trading based game...yo can attack other ships and there are missions...and they change periodically. You can't expect a mission NOT to be taken by someone else can you?? You're not the ONLY person in the galaxy .
Its a very time consuming game, and it wasn't meant to be a quick fix shoot 'em up game in the first place.
You can own factories, more than one ship and have wingmen.
The cut scenes...yeah...they really are pants...and the graphics for them really look nasty as far as I am concerned. They lag and all sorts of things.
The point is this...
The game has alot of potential...and as I understand...X²TR is going to be even better. I can't talk about what I know as I signed an NDA due to my involvement with the game and Egosoft as I have been beta testing...but thats the way the game is though.
Trading has a large part to play in the game. You don't really have to trade if you don't want to...but...it makes the time pass sometimes.
Its really an open ended game...the entire series of games are open ended...you can do what you want in the game. There aren't many games that you can do that with...especially in the space sim genre.
I guess that it all depends on what your into as far as playing X²TT or TR and playing I-War I&II.
I-War II seems to concentrate more on the fighting and shooting...and there really isn't a good trading base. It was meant to be a space fighting sim...and the very first ( Which was called drednaught ) was just that. It trained you to use the controls and the firing...anyone that has ever played I war-I knows this.
In I-War II...you should already know this...and you can actually do what you want to a point as the missions are non-linear. You do them as you want and as you get to them. Like going to find help in the rest of the cluster...If you go to the Firefrost system instead of going to the Compira system...its not going to hurt you one bit.
And...if you were lucky enough to get the added missions in your game that are generated randomly...if you never really do them...its ok...you can always go and do them when you want to.
There are VAST differences between the two games and they appeal to different people. Myself...I like them both the same. There are things that I like about X² and there are things that I like about I-War II.

Anyway...I felt the need to explain some thingabout some of the complaints as I imagine that anyone would that had a little insight into the games. I don't know every aspect of the games...but I share what I know. I know that X²TT has its problems as does any game really...but I think you really had it wrong with the turrets and the script that was written for it. Not going to debate the flgihtmodel as I wish it was a littl more realistic as well...but not everyone can play a game like that. IF I remember correctly...I-War I had a feature to switch to either Arcade mode or ???? (What ever mode it was...can;t rightly remember)...but his was to compesate for the people that really couldn't play that way.
Hope I didn't step on any toes.
Cheers

Don't worry about stepping on any toes. If someone can't take a little criticism, they wouldn't be discussing things in a public forum.

Also, for the sake of readability, please use commas instead of ellipses in your sentences. All those misused ellipses make it a little hard to follow the meaning of your sentences.

Other than that, please go right on posting. We rarely get nice long posts with lots to say these days, and it's nice to see them.

btw - Soup, shouldn't this be moved to the O/T section?

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The Ultimate Guide To Modding: I-War 2 - Edge Of Chaos
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I wasn't comparing I-War to X2, I don't have a problem with the style of X2, it's just not FUN. Fun is the whole point of a game, when a destroyer takes 20 mins to shoot down a few fighters it's not fun, I don't care if there is crew in the turrets or not when i pay millions of credit for a ship I spent a month saving for I WANNA SEE A GODDAMN FIRESTORM OF DEATH. Think Homeworld. X-Wing and Freespace had the same pyhics and control style was the same, but they were fun games. X2, in my opinion, is just lacking that spark. And the patches made little difference to the ship AI.

Like you say loads of people like it and its just my opinion, but I felt you missunderstood me in your previous post.

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There is no enemy. Anywhere.