MiddleStates 7.1 discussion

Version 7.1 is a closed release for testing save features and wingman commands.

Please post wish list items or other ideas/thoughts on the release and what should be included or changed.

There is one feature we have not discussed much, and I expect there will be differing views over how it should work. (Especially since I have implemented an odd view).

That feature is ship capture by marines. Right now the feature is very simple. You hire a wingman with marines on board. Only specific ships carry marines. You don't hire the marines, you hire the whole ship.

The wingman with marines can be ordered to dock with and capture a ship. Only civilian ships can be captured. Military ships are assumed to have automated defenses and computer fail safes for this kind of thing. So freighters, tugs and utility ships are valid targets.

If the wingman manages to dock and stay docked, they will always capture a ship. Once a ship is captured, your marines become the prize crew. The marine ship stops being a wingman, and leaves. Essentially, you trade your marine wingman for a captured ship.

You can always hire more marine ships.

My reasons for implementing the feature this way is that it is the simplest implementation I could think of. Since the player can already hire wingmen, it is no extra features to hire a ship full of marines. And we don't have to track surviving marines. Or which ship is carry what number. Either a ship has them, or it does not.

My rationalization of why marines are always successful (assuming the small boarding ship lives long enough to dock) is that trained troops are going to overwhelm small civilian crews sooner or later. It is just a matter of time.

The reason for losing the wingman after capture is to give some method of controlling the profits the player makes from captures. We now know exactly how much 1 capture costs. The same would be true if the player had to purchase marines. But some purchase must be involved or the player can make a fortune with no cost.

Feel free to post other ideas. And let me know if you like the iFleet solution (hiring soldiers, not ships) better. It would be good to work out before the Traffic feature list gets worked up.

I find the idea of 'Marines' a little bit unbelievable. Why not use robots instead? Heck we already have robots beginning to be used in military activities now, so it seems logical that hundreds of years in the future their use and efficiency would be much greater. You could purchase a 'ship capture' robot, that can be 'launched' after docking with a target ship. It never fails (or it could fail a certain percentage of the time. This could add some risk to its use, because a failed ship capture would mean a lost robot. It would be a big monetary loss) to capture once launched because, well, it is a brutal, chainsaw of death, and no crew can stand a second against it (or them). That would leave the ship unmanned when it was captured though.

Really, I am not sure what to suggest, because I don't really know the limitations of the POG. Nevertheless, we must be very careful with this feature, as capturing a ship could throw all the trade features out the window, if capturing a ship is eaiser and more lucrative. I would prefer to leave the feature out, or make it extremely difficult and/or expensive to do. Also, I would think that any captured ship would be useless. Wouldn't it have security features to prevent it being piloted by unauthorised persons?

Not sure if you're after general opinion or just Developer Team opinion. So if it's team just disreguard:

I think your method is great, but I would raise the price to just short of astronomical; make it the most expensive thing the player would ever buy in the game. And not a sure thing.

I mostly take issue with the title 'Space Marines'. One might as well say 'Galactic Patrol' or 'Space Rangers'... the term (at least for me) conjures up cheesy images.

The combat robots idea is interesting, but I'm not aware of any robots in the I-War cannon... ever. It feels like the inclusion of robots would be the path towards a more Star Wars-ian type universe. I suspect that to keep their edge of realsim PS deliberately kept away from that sort of thing.

Perhaps just call them Mercs? Make them illegal as hell and a very disreputable?

Just my two cents.

Well, lets assume human labor is cheap (life being considered cheap by some in a universe of multiple worlds). Humans are versatile and intelligent, and it is very likey there would be a security race between robots and countermeasures. Thus it would be too expensive to purchase a top of the line robot to capture that ship and win out against the antirobot countermeasures. Kind of the "armor vs. anti-armor weaponry" escalation you've seen since the beginning of warfare here on Earth.

It would also seem logical to me that weapons against human boarders would be hazardous to both the boarders AND the defending crew. And as such, human boarders would be the most useful in capturing a ship since any hazard would also escalate the hazard to the crew. Thus making the best protections against human boarders too hazardous to be used too effectively.

Capturing a ship in iFleet could sometimes take more than one ship worth of marines. So it was iffy and expensive.

Frankly, I like the capturing ship idea, but this is what I think. It also helps the story aspect, marines being human leave a lot of open space for human interest in any story set in this universe. Mehrunes seemed to think so as well when he was doing his iFleet project. So I guess that's 4 cents...

Nevertheless, I'd be happy to hear debate about the subject! Don't think that just because someone has a project member tag we get the final say. This is about the community growing the possibilities of things to do in an EoC-ish universe.

EDIT: I think I'm leaning towards hiring ships, this is simple and more elegent, in the fact that never interacting with the marines directly it is easier to suspend disbelief as far as the player is concerned.
Perhaps more than one ship might be needed for capturing larger ships. Or maybe a pricing and/or logistical difficulty could be implemented...

- Qlippoth

How about a 'ship capture' missle or drone? Maybe it could be launched, and if it docks with the ship the ship is captured? Just extending what I said about a ship capture robot a little bit. I still find marines or mercenaries a little far fetched. What is to stop them from just leaving with the ship once it is captured? What power does the player have over them, that keeps them bound to his will? (aside from pog coding hah)