Capsule Drives and Lpoints

I am fine tuning the Middle States right now, and I am wondering exactly how I should set up Lpoints. Reading over the 'literature' in the games encyclopedia doesn't really tell one much about how the capsule drive works. It seems to suggest that a capsule drive can only work in an Lpoint, because the gravity field elsewhere is prohibitve, in that it causes the energy required to create a capsule to be too high.

Now I am trying to decide whether to place Lpoints between every two orbiting bodies (moons, planets, gas giants) and further, where to allow so called 'interstellar' Lpoints for travel between systems.

So far I am thinking like this. I am putting the 'interstellar' lpoints at the very edge of the system, reasoning that the overall gravity field at an Lpoint furthest from the sun would be lowest. Not sure if this is sound reasoning, but it seems to me to be so. Lpoints are representing the point where two orbiting bodies opposing forces of gravity are equal or canceling out (my layman description). Thus they do not take into account the gravity fields generated by other nearby planets and suns.

The rest of the Lpoints in a system, (lots of them) are all restricted to intra-stellar jumps.

So in my set up all incoming and outgoing traffic is confined to the outer edge of the system.

I am also thinking of eliminating most lpoints around Gas giants, reasoning that the extreme discrepancies in gravity fields between the Giant and it's tiny moons would make an Lpoint too unstable or too close to a moon.

Anyways, all of this is pure psuedo-science. I am just interested in making a nice psuedo-scientific implementation of the Lpoints in the Middle States. Wondering if anyone has any thoughts on it...?

Looking at the Badlands cluster, PS put the intersteller jump lpoints around the gas giants. And many systems have multiple intersteller lpoints. I kind of formed the theory that an jump point needed to be where gravity cancelled, but the distance the jump point could connect was based on the steepness of the gravity well.

So an lpoint near a gas giant and a large moon would have a really long throw. An lpoint between a star and a very close orbiting gas giant would be like a super catapault. But all that is just me making stuff up.

From a game play point of view, here are some throughts.

If there is only one lpoint going into or out of a system, there cannot be smuggling routes that are not patrolled. Only a lunatic government would NOT put a permanent base at that one lpoint.

With only one lpoint there is also no reason for long hauling freighters to cross a system. They will jump in, and instantly jump out. So systems like Epitaph, loaded with dangers, will just be avoided.

local lpoints are like designing in a star systems highway roads. It only takes a moment to jump. So if every planet moon pair has known working lpoint, then there are no backwater areas. There are no areas that take police patrols many minuits to reach. This can be important in developed systems with many navy bases.

And lastly, if every lpoint is already mapped and defined, then you cannot discover new routes, the way the background notes relate in the history. The Middle States release will not have this feature, but I did write a code package that allows a player to scan for lpoints. These smuggler lpoints can be one way, or two way. And they can lead.... anywhere. It might be a fun feature for the future.

Ok, having said all that, I don't want to limit your approach. Feel free to build it as you like it. The geography tools make it easy to change your mind later.

Is Second Chance around anywhere? I am wondering how his Space Master mod is planned to work.

Your view is how I originally looked at it as well. But after some consideration it started making less sense. I think the main problem is this: The capsule jump is supposed to be something generated and powered completely by a ship. The Lpoint itself does nothing else than provide a good location for doing this. However, in the game itself the jumps are controlled by the Lpoints. So we have a situation where we are trying to implement the psuedo-technology using a game engine that actually wasn't designed to implement it. It seems like the game programmers were stuck on the idea of worm-holes, even thought the designers were thinking of something new and a little different.

Now as for smuggling routes, well you are right, there will be almost no intrastellar smuggling routes, but that just means the smuggling routes would be shifted to the interstellar routes. Smugglers would be forced to go around whole systems, rather than finding sneaky ways through them. However, it would be easy enough to put two or three interstellar routes in a system, reasoning that 2 or 3 Lpoints are good enough to make interstellar capsule jumps from.

It is also true that if any Interstellar Lpoint gives access to all the possible jumps in and out of a system, then freighters will not need to cross a system. However, the way capsule drives are meant to work, they should not need to cross a system. They should be able to just pop in and pop out. The Lpoints are like stepping stones in a pond. I suppose we want to force the freighters and the player to do hauls across systems, to add some danger and excitement. Otherwise thye will only ever passing through lpoints while travelling.

I am trying to imagine why (in terms of capsule psuedo-science) a system would have two different interstella lpoints, each leading to different systems. I guess my answer would be that a capsule that would need to pass through the center of the system it originated in on route to its destination system, would get sucked back into normal space by the large gravity of the sun at the orginating systems center. Thus interstellar Lpoints need to be spread out at the periphery of the system, with clear, gravity field free routes between them and their target systems.

As for having an lpoint at every planet/moon combo. Firstly, there should be no discovery of lpoints. We all know where they are. It is a simple formula and any advanced space craft could easily just predict and plot Lpoints for any known planets/moons/suns. It doesn't make any sense that an Lpoint would be 'hidden'. However, that doesn't mean we can't have new 'interstellar' Lpoints discovered. i.e. Lpoints that because of some virtue of their formation are suited for making an interstellar jump out of a system. Could that code you built work to scan existing lpoints for 'interstellar' ability?

Also, I am planning to make most moons around a Gas Giant lack a workable Lpoint. Thus this would turn the areas around Gas Giants into 'backwaters'. Any travel between moons and asteroid fields around a Gas Giant would need to be done on LDS. So Gas Giants would become dangerous and relatively inaccessible areas that we could populate with pirates and smugglers etc.

Anyways, I will rethink how I am going to work the interstellar Lpoints. I agree that we need to have ships passing through systems, rather than merely skipping over them. hmm...not really sure what I want to do now...Any other thoughts out there?

Hot4Darmat and I are currently building a mod called Asylum, which takes place in the Diomedes cluster of the EoC universe.

When building the Diomedes cluster I decided to restrict L-points greatly. I didn't want L-points which lead to multiple systems at all.

Personally I find it rather boring to exit an L-point, circle, and then go through again. EoC seldom generated any traffic encounters which were anything other than a nuisance (though this could be changed depending upon the player's reputation and ship balance). For Asylum each L-point serves a single location. You can't 'jump across' systems.

By limiting the number of L-points I gain a greater control over locations where mission events can occur. From a player's perspective, I believe this is an important thing.

Originally posted by Cambragol
The capsule jump is supposed to be something generated and powered completely by a ship. The Lpoint itself does nothing else than provide a good location for doing this.

I disagree. And hold the same views as GrandpaTrout does on capsule drive/L-point function.

If the L-point has nothing to do with where you go, then why can't you jump from Hoffer's Wake directly to Firefrost? Or Dante? Or Mwari? How much fun would EoC have been if this was the case? I feel giving the player that much power (the power to go anywhere without passing through any systems) would be disasterous.

Also, the plot in EoC featured someone 'scouting' a new L-point (the backdoor to Mwari). Therefore, new routes can be discovered.

It is my conjecture that the mass of the two bodies which create the L-point effects the direction and range of travel. Hundreds of L-points exist... in fact you've got five around each body. But how many actually lead somewhere?

It's all conjecture; PS didn't give us specifics. But from a play-mechanic view and a 'EoC universe' view I feel L-points should be restricted and not open to 'jump-anywhere'.

Oh... and from the I-War manual:

"<font face="Courier New">Capsule collaspe theory shows how these smaller universe bubbles are rapidly drawn back into main space-time. This limits the distance which can be covered in a single jump</font id="Courier New">."

Edit:

Originally posted by Cambragol
So we have a situation where we are trying to implement the psuedo-technology using a game engine that actually wasn't designed to implement it. It seems like the game programmers were stuck on the idea of worm-holes, even thought the designers were thinking of something new and a little different.

I feel this is incorrect also. Capsule drive was developed for I-War. EoC utilized a new engine. I find it hard to believe that Flux, which was built brand new and in-house specifically for EoC, was "not designed to implement this" or that the designers were "stuck on the idea of worm-holes".

Good points all. I do prefer that lpoints connecting stars be limited in which star they reach. I like the idea that the capsule cannot cross the main mass of the star. (if we had orbiting planets, then the connecting web of lpoints would always be changing - now wouldn't that be cool!)

It is true that even if you have two lpoints in the system, the player could jump into a system, skip from one to another, and then jump back out. Flux has that behavior built in.

We don't want that to happen. Or we at least don't want that to be free.

Hmmm. I remember (and just relocated) a parameter for controlling the AI pilots. If you set this value very large, they will use LDS to reach objects and not capsule jumps. That deals with the AI, and will force freighters to make long runs.

The player is another matter. I was planning to charge the player a day or two of time for making an capsule jump. The time translates directly into money because the player is paying upkeep. We could charge the same time for local jumps. That does break the game "canon" because capsule jumps seemed to be very quick.

I like the charge player solution because it forces the player to make a choice - relative safety but at a cost, or cross the system. Choices are good. I like giving people choices. Keeps their mind busy while the autopilot is flying them places.

We could charge an upkeep fee for using the capsule drive. Pretend some parts are expended with each jump. As a Navy captain, you never had to worry about upkeep, but as a merchant, expenses are front and center.


More thoughts on Capsule Jumping

It would seem that capsule space must have some imperfections, just as real space. Much like floating a ship on the ocean makes it easy to move, but not move anywhere. Land gets in the way. We don't get much guidance on what those limitations would be in capsule space.

If there are imperfections, then it would be reasonable that some possible lpoints, really are useless for entering capsule space. Like floating an ocean liner in a swimming pool. It just won't take you anywhere.

There are a few clues. Could a small mass balancing the sun at great distance form an Lpoint? The game never does that. I can totally follow the idea of Gas Giant lpoints and small moons not working at all. The lpoint is nearly inside the moon. Even if it goes against the Badlands cluster design. But perhaps there must be some minimum mass to form an capsule jump capable lpoint?

What about the purpose of Jump Accelerators. Somehow, that thing was increasing the distance that you could travel. And by blowing up the NEAR side, made it impossible for a capsule to reach that lpoint.

Well, things to think about. Very interesting discussion.

Another idea to throw in the mix:

Is there any reason lpoints must be considered stable?

If you want to have ways of getting into systems or into areas of space that go around offical channels then you will probably look for ways that are avoided due to inconvenience or risk. If you subscribe to the concept of unstable lpoints then you have a way to introduce "sneak/backdoor" ways into places because such lpoints are inconvenient or risky.

How would such unstable lpoints represent themselves? An immediate way could be detectability. Sometimes they are there, sometimes not. Perhaps they have random exit points (can't be navigated reliably).

Just an idea that might be of interest.